[00:00:00] 

Armelle: I would like to cut myself so that everybody would see that I hurt 'cause right now nobody can see from the outside. Everybody thinks that I'm just a 26-year-old young woman living life, being happy, having, and I'm like, and I'm not, it's just hurting. It's so painful.

The first priest, when I was six, he told me actually, that God wanted that for me, and that I had to be a good girl for God.

the fear of being punished came from there or came from just Christianism talking about vengeful God.

I would often punish myself first when I was little.

Vincent: A shout out to a friend of the show, Fadwa Baraba and Matei Mancas who donated to support the podcast. To make a donation visit storiesofhealingpodcast.org or look at the show note in your podcasting app. This episode contains [00:01:00] mention of neglect, emotional abuse, physical abuse, sexual abuse, including rape and suicidal thoughts.

Your discretion is advised.

Welcome to Stories of Healing, a podcast where we explore what it is to be human, to suffer, and to heal. My name is Vincent Paul, and I'm your host.

Welcome Armelle on Stories of Healing. It's a pleasure to have you today. I wanna start by saying quickly the story of how we've met, remotely, though

Armelle: Okay.

Vincent: A friend of mine named Eric who is in a MKP brother and did my carpet work, so called carpet work, introduce me to a friend of yours named Jean-Francois, a French man who has been walking the planet for three years of his life and is still walking the planet. And Jean-Francois [00:02:00] introduced me to you and we had a call talking about something totally different than stories of healing, but somehow, uh, the topic came, and I thought I'd love to have Armelle on the podcast. So here we are today.

Armelle: Hmm. Yeah. Thank you so much Vincent, and I'm happy to be here. 

Vincent: So I know a little bit about you, but perhaps I just want to let you start. When do you think the matter of healing became part of your consciousness? If I may say 

Armelle: hmm.

Well, um, the path of healing for me started in 2001, um, when my son died, uh, suddenly in five days. He was almost 14 month old. And then suddenly something happened. Um, his dad was playing soccer and when he came back, he heard our son crying and [00:03:00] he went in his room and he had vomited. And, um, and so he went to take him and we, we washed him and clean and his, uh, his bed. And then we called the doctor. Um, the doctor came and, uh, said, that it was only a gastroenteritis that we didn't have to worry And I was never worried as a mother, but that day I say, I dunno why, but I'm worried. And he say, well, no worry, there is no meningitis. There is no harshness, hard, hard neck. And I had no idea by then what was a meningitis. I had no idea why the doctor say that. But some way I would say today we must have been connected to something. Um. Because, um, during the night, he, we took our, our son in the bed with us and he was, [00:04:00] uh, doing plenty of little noise. He was moving a lot, and he was not like that usually. Um, he woke up above the blanket, um, and still feeling very, um, dossy we say. Um, and, um, and then, um, I took care of him. I gave him his medicine. I massaged his belly. I, I gave him everything that the doctor had given me. Um, but for some reason he had had gastroenteritis before. I wasn't feeling the same way. And the whole day passed as if I knew something was wrong, but I couldn't pinpoint what was wrong.

And at some point, because he was still vomiting I decided to go to the pharmacist, take the new medicine that the doctor had, uh, prescribed. Um, and when I went there, I sat [00:05:00] him on the table to put his, uh, jacket and he fell. He fell back on the table. And I, there, I was scared. I was like, oh my God, what's happening? And I, um. He, he couldn't sit anymore and I did not understand what was going on. Um, I told the pharmacist what just happened. Uh, she told me, I think you should go and see the doctor.

And before that, already, before going there, I had called my, uh, pediatrician. Well, is, uh, because I had a sense something was not going well. You know, like mother can have, I was very young. I was only 23 and, I had called the pediatrician and asked him if we could go earlier. To, uh, if we could go for an appointment. And, uh, and he said, no. Well, yes, but I can only see you at the end of the day. I don't have, uh, I'm very busy today. And then, um, then I asked him to go earlier [00:06:00] because I say, no, no, this is far too late.

You have to see him as soon as you can. And he said, I cannot do anything else. And I say, well, I, I don't know why, but I'm very worried. So he, yeah, he, he must have thought like another worried mother, and so when the pharmacist told me if I was you, I would go, uh, and see the doctor. I decided on the way back to my home to stop on the side of the road the parking there was just in front of the street of the pediatrician, but I, I was totally unable to get out of the car because he told me that, um, that he wasn't available.

And so I was scared. I wanted to go. And in the same time I was like almost paralyzed. I, I, because I was like, observing the, the thing that he told me, like saying, no, uh, he's not available. Don't go and disturb him. Um, and so I decided to go home and I was so lost, feeling like I don't know [00:07:00] what to do.

Then a colleague of mine called me and he said, if I were you, I would go to the hospital right now. And I didn't even think about that. 

Vincent: Hm.

Armelle: So I decided to go and right when I was leaving, his dad came back from work, uh, and we went directly to the hospital. And there it started five days of plenty of, um, exams and, well, I'm just making the story short because there's quite a lot of things in it.

Um, but basically they put him in the coma. They say that he would wake up 

um, and then he never woke up. And so, um, then four days later, after an operation in his brain, uh, they still didn't know what he had. Every day they had exams, but they had no idea, no clue.

And at some point they say that the brain was not working. He was only breathing because of [00:08:00] the respirator. And so that when we, whenever we would be ready, we were to make the decision to stop the machine is we say, ah, which was a huge thing. I was super angry at the doctor.

Um, there was a psychologist who came, I was super angry at her because I was like, my God, my son is not dead yet, so please like, go away. Um, and then finally that night, uh, we decided to, we decided to stop the machine because we didn't want him to suffer. And when I look back today at that, I just find myself very naive in some way. Um, back then, because I just wonder how can he suffer if he doesn't have any signals saying that the brain is working? Uh, so I, I had felt like that the doctors lied a bit. [00:09:00] Um, they didn't want to for us to keep the machine going on.

Um, there were plenty of things like that, I came in the hospital, I was a mother and I left I wasn't, and, and I had no clue who I was at all. Like we define ourselves so much by the role we play in life. And for me, uh, well that's who I had become. I had become a mother. Um, and I wasn't, and I didn't know how to cope with this. I felt when he, he died when the machine stopped, I felt no emotion at all. Actually. I felt like I died with him. Um. Like, uh, and now I could say that it was sideration, but uh, I felt, I felt like there was just a huge silence in my mind. 

Vincent: Hmm. What about those days leading to that? [00:10:00] What was going through your head? How were you feeling? 

Armelle: Well, um, I didn't eat at all during these five days. Um, my son is dying. I cannot be alive somewhere like this, like a paradox. Um, I almost didn't sleep. I wanted to be with him all the time. Um, I was terrified. I was desperate. I did not understand what was going on.

Vincent: Hmm.

Armelle: I, I was praying every day. I, I, I had not prayed for, I don't know, 10 years, maybe every morning when the sun would rise, I would pray to God, please take me instead of him, because I'll never be able to, to live after that. Um, so it was terrifying, 

Vincent: mm-Hmm.[00:11:00] 

Armelle: And I felt also so guilty because the nurses when we came to the first hospital had asked me so many question, what did you do? What did he do? Uh, could he take some medicine? Uh, and why did you not come earlier? And I just felt like I, I was interrogated as a criminal and that, and I could not answer any of their question because I had no clue why I didn't come earlier.

So I thought, oh, maybe that's my fault if I had come earlier. So I felt like so guilty.

Vincent: That sounds also very shaming, shaming in some way. 

Armelle: Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Like I, I was a bad mother.

Vincent: What comes up when you, when you say that now?

Armelle: well, what comes up is actually what I discovered many years later that, uh, that made me understood everything I went through, um, which is that I was abused when I was little. [00:12:00] And I could really relate the sideration, the paralysis, the not being able to think about anything. Um, I needed someone to tell me what to do in order to be able to do it.

And as I went through the therapy of all the abuses, I could so much understand why this mother couldn't move, couldn't think, couldn't do anything. And also, I had so much in my childhood being told that I didn't have the right to speak, that I wasn't asked what I was thinking, that I was to do only what I was told. I never gave, um, power or validity to my feelings, to everything I could feel to the intuition that I got already the first night, um, or the whole day, there's something wrong. It's, but I could not give validity to that. I didn't know what to do with it. I had learned to listen to the authority.

Vincent: Mm-Hmm

Armelle: Uh, [00:13:00] and the doctor seems to be an authority as we talk about health. Um, so I trusted them. I just kind of gave my whole power over 

Vincent: Mm-Hmm. 

Armelle: plus all the traumatization that I wasn't aware of because I had, uh, completely lost the memory of all these abuses. Um, and so all the frozen parts, the paralysis, the inability to think or to comprehend what's going on, 

Vincent: mm-Hmm.

Yeah. You mentioned some childhood abuses. Did the memory of those came at the same time as your son was dying, or or afterwards you remembered?

Armelle: Yeah. Later, when I did some, uh, therapy for the guilt that I kept feeling two, three years later, the therapist was, uh, practicing EMDR, but also his own technique called, [00:14:00] psychotherapy, uh, trauma re- association, PTR.

And it's really an amazing technique that really allows me to recollect all the memories. Not in once and after we, we worked on the guilt with my son, um, I told him that I knew that he was working a lot with, um, um, sexual abuse.

He was known for that, and I told him that I had one image of something when I was little that I didn't think it was a big thing, but I had one image that sometimes I was wondering why I was seeing that, or that it was a little bit disturbing for me sometimes in some part of sexuality, uh, that I had, um, some feeling, uh, or sensation somewhere in my hands. Um, and so I say, okay, let's work on this image. We'll just kinda cut that, like dissociate the traumatization [00:15:00] from the image so that you can have a, a great sexuality or just let go of this idea of thoughts, wondering what's what it is about. And so we did one session on that and then I started to have plenty of images.

It actually opened up the door. I. To so much that I had forgotten. And so I did three or four session with him and it seemed endless. I felt like I'm never gonna get, um, to the end of this. Plus I started to feel completely depressed.

Like I was only, I, I just had finished like a session with him about the guilt of my son and I, I was like, okay, I'm gonna be able to breathe. And now there was this coming up. Um, and I remember it was so painful to become aware of all that I had lived. Um. There was two things that were [00:16:00] going on.

There was one thing where I, I kept thinking, that's not possible. I can't have lived this. I must invent, I must create the whole thing. It's because I had, um, um, a colleague back then who had told me about having been abused. So I thought, this is her stories. I'm making up the whole thing. This cannot be me.

I'm certainly using what she lived . But no, this cannot be true. But as I kept going, I kept having more memories and more sensation in my body. And at some point I just felt overwhelmed by all that. And I even remember one night I couldn't sleep because it was awful. And, uh, the evening I had made myself dinner and I decided to drink a glass of wine.

And that night, when I, I went down in the kitchen and I saw that glass and I, I took it and the glass was very thin, so I thought if I break it I will be able to cut [00:17:00] all my skin and maybe my veins.

I, I just felt like I'm not gonna be able to live with this. This is too much already. I'm just living the death of my son. It's already awful enough. It's already difficult to live with that. And I already had thought about, I can't live, I just wanna kill myself. I never did it, but the thought came so many times.

Um, but that was like, like, yeah, really too much. Um, and I was there with this glass. And I just felt, at least I would like to cut myself so that everybody would see that I hurt 'cause right now nobody can see from the outside Everybody thinks that I'm just a 26-year-old young woman living life, being happy, having, and I'm like, and I'm not, it's just hurting. It's so painful. Um, I felt so alone with my [00:18:00] woundedness. I felt that nobody could understand me. Um, and I decided to actually shut off the whole thing and not go to the therapy anymore and do as if it didn't happen.

cause it was far too much. but then I, I had a boyfriend afterwards who, who was a bit violent. He slapped me once in the face and then twice. And so I went back to my therapist. I spoke to him about it and he said I couldn't stay. And there were plenty of things. It felt like just the whole thing was like adding, adding up and there were times where it wa for sure, life was great, but it felt like something wanted me to see what I didn't wanna see and I kept adding more traumas to my life.

Vincent: Yeah, while you were grieving, you had the memories of the sexual abuse that happened in your childhood. You were in a unsafe relationship with [00:19:00] a boyfriend. That's a lot to handle.

Armelle: Yeah. And, uh, and that ended, I finally to end this relationship one day when we were at the, the wedding of my cousin I decided to leave. He didn't come, my boyfriend back then. And my father went to, um, walked me to my car, I, I sat in my car and he say, my darling, you are amazing, you're beautiful, you are intelligent. Any man would want to be with you. Why do you stay with such a one like this? And I felt like that was it. That was exactly what I needed to hear. And I decided to end the relationship a few days or a week after or something like that. It was difficult to, um. To forget or to, to mourn that relationship because of all the, the difficult times. The violence and [00:20:00] also the, yeah, also the similarities we had, the love, the fun also. Um, but I always felt like I, I could not do what I had to do in order for him to be different. I was always guilt tripping myself, always felt like it's because of me.

Vincent: hmm, what did guilt feel like for you in, in your sensate reality in your body?

Armelle: uh, like something, um, shrinking my heart like, um, contraction. And like, uh huh I did something wrong. But that would be a lot, a long, very long,

Vincent: Mm-Hmm

Armelle: you know, that would last with the sense that I did something wrong. I shouldn't have said that. I shouldn't have done that. I, and I totally see today what it relates to also.

Vincent: What does it relate to?[00:21:00] 

Armelle: Um, I feel that when I was little, sometimes I, I always, I, I, I, um, I was always, um, very intuitive, very connected. And, um, I would, I would even say that I, uh, I, I discovered these last few years that I, I was very in touch with the subconscious mind for the people of their thought or something like that. And when I was little, I would say things like very bluntly. Uh, I don't know if I was doing it to hurt or anything, I remember having told once to my mother, um, when I was seven, I think, um, that she killed her mother. And actually my mother had a car accident where she was driving and her mother died. And my mother was like, whoa. And she actually didn't talk to me for a few days.

She went to a bedroom [00:22:00] and repeatedly these things would happen for me. With her, I would say things and, I always felt like she would seemingly reject me or not speak to me for a while or, uh, shut her, shut herself off. So I had felt like I, I can't say what I think, I can't express myself, um, in an honest and true way. Uh, otherwise I'm rejected. I'm not loved. 

Vincent: mm-Hmm. 

Armelle: And then, I grew up with parents who were saying that I, we didn't have the right to talk whenever we wanted. We were to listen and to do whatever we were told. So again, my voice was not welcome

Vincent: Yeah. 

Armelle: And I also was like, so, talkative when I was little today too, I guess. But when I was little, I was very talkative, very early. [00:23:00] And every time that my sister and my mother would tell me something and they would say, it's a secret, I couldn't keep it, I would always share. So, I did not understand the concept of hiding things or lying or these kind of things.

I felt like very innocent . And, and then I would say things and my mother would like, uh, kick me in my under the table to say like, stop talking. Stop talking! Uh, . So there, there's really something about not talking too much or not saying everything I think. 

Vincent: And here you are talking with us today quite transparently.

Armelle: Yeah, totally. And I became right and I became a speaker or , just a teacher. So I'm talking quite a lot.

Vincent: Yeah. I, I wanna ask something and I, you know, I realize it's obviously very sensitive topic. You mentioned sexual abuse, and what was the consequence on you? And any, if you [00:24:00] don't mind, you know, giving some context of those abuse, uh, to the extent you feel safe, safe, sharing. Yeah.

Armelle: Yeah, sure. Um, I was abused several times and I discovered that over the years. So the second abuse I lived, I remembered in 2015, and suddenly I just saw the picture and I understood why I was scared of that man from my whole life. Uh, that was terrifying again, to remember. I also remember it was in a church. It was during my catechism. Um, so the first one was when I was between four and six, and it was the old neighbor. This one was when I was six. It was, uh, during catechism in the church, and he actually um, sequestered me he locked the door and I couldn't get out. I, and I, uh, [00:25:00] I was stuck inside.

One thing that I remember during these few days there is the sense of being so dirtied that I, I would be, and I could feel that I had felt that little, it was something like little, I had told myself, no man will ever want to get married with me. Now I'm done. It's over. And feeling this despair and. I recall that, um, right after the memory of the abuses, but I didn't know what had happened exactly. I just had a memory for many years, um, where I would see myself in front of a door that was locked. I couldn't open it and I couldn't shout out loud, but I was screaming inside myself and I was always saying, help mommy, help mommy, help mommy. And I would see that for, for several [00:26:00] years as I was living in a spiritual community, uh, going through a path of, um, enlightenment and going through some deep healing. And I would not understand this picture. And so every time I would live something difficult, I would have that feeling like, um, help mommy, help mommy.

And I didn't know why. And there I got this picture and I understood, that was the moment where I had it. But it took me years to actually be able to get the full picture of it, um, and to recall all the memories because it was so violent. That guy, to me was a real psychopath, really rejoicing in my, in my terror plus all the, the, the, the touch. And actually I only accepted to, um, um, to [00:27:00] realize, well or accepted not so long ago that I was raped. Uh, and I, I was scared of that for many years. So there were things that I was keeping out of my memory and not really wanting to go there in therapy. Um, and then. I, at some point I saw it, but I didn't wanna know it. So I did as if it was not there. Um, and not so long ago I wrote, uh, a testimonial, um, because here in Belgium there is a commission, uh, parliament commission for the abuses in church. And they were welcoming testimonials and I decided to do it. Um, and so I wrote, and as I wrote these testimonials, I recalled all the memories just as if I always knew what had happened. And doing that felt to me like, okay, [00:28:00] now I know the whole story. It felt like now my life can change. But it took me from 2015 to 2024 to be able to be completely true and to be able to see the horror that I had lived 

Vincent: were there, certain degree of, additional suffering or trauma that was caused because it involved somebody within the Catholic church, a representative of God, A man of church. 

Armelle: I think, uh, there were two priests and the thing is that my mother was giving me to them to take care of me in a way to teach me, Um, and I saw that betrayal of being someone who was supposed to care for people um, and also I remember the first priest when I was six, [00:29:00] raped me also he told me actually, that God wanted that for me, 

Vincent: mm-Hmm

Armelle: And that I had to be a good girl for God.

Vincent: hmm.

Armelle: Um, and I dunno if the fear of being punished came from there or came from just Christianism Catholicism, talking about vengeful God. Um. But I know that in order to avoid that, I would often punish myself first when I was little. And I would say that I felt abandoned that Jesus was there on the cross, not doing anything for me 

Vincent: yeah.

Armelle: And also two years ago, as I was doing therapy again with that, I, I, I, I had a boyfriend who broke up [00:30:00] with me and the breaking up was quite violent.

Um, and very sudden. Um, and, um, and a few days later I met my previous therapist that I didn't see for 15 years or, or 17 years. And I, and when I saw him, I was a, oh, I think I, I have to come and see you. And so he gave me his card. I called him and I went back to therapy with him. And that's when more memories came about that abuse.

And I also discovered that he wasn't alone, that there was also the priest who came. And I also discovered, um, a few session later that I also had been abused, um, when I was nine by another priest also during catechism. So it was like, oh my God, that's a lot.

Vincent: It is, yeah.

Armelle: And I also felt that as I was recollecting the memory, [00:31:00] I started to gain my life back.

Vincent: Mm-Hmm.

Armelle: So I felt that not knowing, I, I, in a way I felt safer, not knowing, I felt like I didn't wanna know. But what I discover is I did this PTR, um, psychotherapy, trauma re-association. I discovered that as, as soon as I was, uh, undoing the dissociation. I would actually gain my life back. Every time I had a session with my therapist, every time I felt more myself and that I was gaining more clarity and, and more possibilities also for life. Otherwise, all these years I just had, um, repeated cycles over and over again with a somewhat abusive man in one way or another, or betrayal over and over again.

[00:32:00] Um, and also being scared of doing plenty of things that I wanted to do because I didn't feel safe. Uh, so you were asking for the consequences. One of the first one I can say is that I didn't go to university doing what I wanted to do because I was too scared to go and live in another city. 

Vincent: Yeah,

Armelle: Um, and I was very, I could say shy, uh, outside my usual environment, but I understood these last few years that it wasn't shy. I was so insecure. 

Vincent: Hmm. 

Armelle: felt so unsafe in the world. 

Vincent: Yeah. Yeah, of course. The world was unsafe when you grew up. 

Armelle: totally. And I felt that actually I lived five years in the States and I also live one year in Quebec. And I feel that, uh, these years were amazing for me actually, because not being in Belgium felt safer. And I didn't know [00:33:00] why back then, but I understood after, um. And I did things that I never did anywhere else in Quebec, for example, I, uh, I hitchhiked, I traveled everywhere, um, and I was very blunt, which I was not. And even today I would not hitchhike here in Belgium. Um, yeah.

Vincent: Well, I wanted to acknowledge your, your courage in, in what you just shared. You know, it's.

Armelle: Hmm. 

Vincent: I feel privileged to hear your story like this. 

Armelle: Yeah, it's actually the first time that I share it as openly. Uh, and I think after listening to the other interviews that you had and yourself. Um, it actually gave me the taste to do it because I felt mainly in yours, and Jeff's interview, I felt that they were [00:34:00] leaving no trace, no track. It's almost like it was so true that it was leaving no track in me. I could feel touched, I could relate in some places. I felt like, wow, this is such a powerful energy to actually speak your truth, but your whole truth, not just what you know to be true.

I mean the horror that you had lived through. Um, and that gave me the desire to actually do it. And also I have to say that doing it in English is easier for me that if I was doing it in French 

Yeah. So I, I still see that these abuses have some consequences in my life, in my job, for example, in being more seen than I am. 

Vincent: What do you mean by being more seen than you are?

Armelle: Well, because in [00:35:00] my work in French speaking, I'm a bit, uh, known, as a spiritual teacher and coach and speaker and I can see that, uh, these last few years I have managed to keep it big enough, but small enough,

Vincent: mm-Hmm.

Armelle: so big enough to allow the flow of life to happen and still controlling what happens so that it's not too big. So I'm not too seen because what I actually learned from these experiences is that being me is dangerous.

Vincent: Hmm.

Armelle: Um, being completely happy alive, or even beautiful is a dangerous, dangerous thing. And I wouldn't say that I lived with that by that today, for sure. Not. But I can still see some corner in my life from time to time where it's like, oh, okay, that's [00:36:00] a reminiscent of it. Oh, here. That's still something that's there. And certainly one thing is actually relationship with man. If we talk about intimacy. I feel like I was a magnet for people who had somewhat of abusing patterns. 

And, um, and where I think I would just, in a way, really keep proving to myself what I felt when I was six, that nobody will ever want me again. That is also added to the trauma with my son, where I felt, if I meet someone that truly is loving and that I love, I might want another child. Therefore, it has to not work. So it's like this life has been, uh, add on on everything, um, including my childhood.

Vincent: [00:37:00] mm-Hmm.

Armelle: I think today it's better to laugh about it and also I did so much, inner work with it that I feel great to talk about it. I certainly don't have spoken spoken like this before. 

Vincent: How do you feel speaking like this today? Like never before

Armelle: It actually feels really good, I feel, um, like a release. Yeah. It's like I'm allowing my heart to say the whole truth, 

Vincent: That's beautiful.

Armelle: Yeah. It is. It is.

Vincent: So if you check with your heart what other part of the whole truth do you want to share with us? 

Armelle: Well, you know, the context also in which all of these abuses happened is also a childhood with parents who fight all the time. So there is also no safety there. and, um, and [00:38:00] yeah, so it's like the whole story of my life is a story of unsafety. Um, and I also, I also feel that when I was little, I was so alive. I, I still am actually, I, I, I see myself today as, uh, so alive. Um, but I was so alive and, as I told you, like just very connected and I had, um, quite a lot of confidence, self-confidence, and I was a gymnast. I was winning competition. Life was quite easy for me. I was easily working at school. Um, so it's kinda strange actually to have had this whole life, um, these old experiences and in the same time seeing that up until, uh, the, the death of my son. For me, life was flowing and easy mostly, [00:39:00] although it was also very depressing with my parents.

And I wondered constantly, what am I doing here? Why was I born? I thought that God had punished me. I, I thought that, yeah, I was often asking, why am I here? Um, I had already young, uh, thought about suicide, um, already as a teenager because I. It was just unbearable to be in this family where they were fighting all the time.

And we were often since little with my sister, asking my mother to leave my dad, who was, um, I wouldn't say an alcoholic, but he was drinking. And when he drank, he could be violent. Not necessarily with, um, uh, physically, but, uh, verbally, uh, violent with my mother not with us. Um, but we had to just go through all that all the time.

And I also remembered because I had [00:40:00] so many dissociation, I forgot so many things. I realized as I went to therapy, I also had a memory of, um, of him where I was terrified by him, so terrified. And what I did is that I idealize him instead of being terrified. And I saw that's also what I was doing with men.

I would not listen to my intuition about, no, this is not someone for me. I would go and I would shut myself off from seeing all the things that I felt were not okay. Just as I learned that at little, and I would repeat that pattern over and over again. 

And I feel that really everything that I'm telling you is actually this last year. it's like closing a cycle. I feel like I, I have become aware of everything about how my system works. Not saying that I cannot discover something again. I mean, [00:41:00] it's endless, right? But I feel like so clear, like I'm given another chance to start a brand new life. 

Vincent: mm-Hmm. 

Armelle: So I think that's also why it feels so good to share with you. It feels part of this closing the cycle

Vincent: yeah. Thank you.

Armelle: and also thank you for you. It actually feels the perfect place to talk about that.

Vincent: Yeah. 

Armelle: You know, I didn't talk about that at all, but I actually went on a profound spiritual path. I lived five years in the state in a spiritual community, and I went for a path of awakening, and I, I didn't know what it was. I just felt called to it, and I decided to follow, because one thing that happened after the death of my son is that I started to hear my inner voice, or God's voice, or my soul's [00:42:00] voice, we call it as we want my intuition.

And I actually lived my life since then, so 23 years ago, following this inner voice as much as I can, and as much as I'm aware of everything. And, um, , at some point I I met someone who touched me very much. I saw such a light in her and I decided to follow that path.

And I went to this deep spiritual path which was amazing actually, I feel like that the depth of the healing started there when I started to have, um, profound opening experience like, uh, consciousness opening and awakening experiences and unity experiences, and then a lot of mystical experiences that I went through.

And so, all these five years completely changed my life. Because there was a point where it felt [00:43:00] that the inner working were not done by me anymore. Instead of living and seeing everything from Armelle's and my suffering, I was seeing it from consciousness and what I, what we are all in truth, what I am.

And having that inner space of knowing that I am more than my body, knowing that I am more than my mind, more than my thought, more than my emotion, or even more than ever, than everything I went through in life. Uh, I feel set that space, that's exactly that inner space that allowed me to recall the memory of the abuses.

Vincent: Hmm.

Armelle: I do believe that if I didn't have that, I would've never been able to face everything I faced because from there it was still painful but I had a context and I could see it from the perspective [00:44:00] of what I am in truth, what has never been touched by all these experiences and not anymore from Armelle and my suffering. And I think that's what made the difference between the first discovery of the abuse, where I was very much identified with myself and so the suffering was me and I just wanted to die. And later I had more space. It doesn't mean it was less painful, it was still painful, but I had a space and a context and I knew that part of, for me, the awakening process or maybe the path of life's actually healing our wounds. So it's, it's actually getting more aware, getting more free. And to me, we're here on earth to discover who we are and to allow ourself to be completely who we are. And so that context also completely shifted my experience of [00:45:00] everything. And today still, like my life is not perfect, but whenever something is arising, I'm like, okay, this is an opportunity to get to know myself even more or to be myself even more. And I felt it really changed a lot. 

Vincent: mm-Hmm.

Armelle: And since then, so it was in 2009 that I started that path. And um, that's what I teach today. That's, uh, that's what I, I share or so it, my life has been all about that. I really discovered what it was to be in service and what it was to live listening to this inner voice or what I call today, the natural movement of life, and I feel like this is, um, doing the work for me.

Then I still have to face, I still have to work through it or I went back to therapy, but I didn't for, [00:46:00] I don't know, for 15 years maybe, or something like that. It's only three years, uh, three or four years that I went back to therapy when the abuses were too much for me 

Vincent: mm-Hmm 

Armelle: and basically mostly because I just felt like it was so difficult to have a intimate relationship and I, I felt okay, I'm so wounded in that place. I have to take care of that. It. 

Vincent: Yeah. You mentioned very significant things in your healing journey, like, living five years with the spiritual community in the US and the change of perspective you had in your life or change of perspective. I, I think for life itself, um, you had. 

Armelle: Also, yeah.

Vincent: If you think now about your entire healing journey and are there, other, significant important [00:47:00] part of it you'd like to share? 

Armelle: The first thing that came to my mind is I feel like a little girl today. I feel this innocence again. I feel this aliveness. I feel this joy, I feel, life is there to grab. So I, I think that what is there to me right now, it's really, there is an end to this. That's what I would love people to hear there is a possibility for an end to this. It doesn't have to keep hurting our whole life. And I really feel also that life is always calling us back to ourself. Um, so everything that's happening is part of the journey. There isn't, for me, one thing that, um, that I can say this was a mistake. No, I could say that I would've preferred my son didn't [00:48:00] die. I could say that I would've sometimes liked to have a more, easy and easier life for sure.

And my life is what it is and it's possible to make it what we want it to be. 

Vincent: mm-Hmm. 

Armelle: And I'm not saying like a super successful life, that's not what I'm saying. It's more like peaceful for me. It's more about that like finding inner peace, knowing who we are, and living from there. And then what happens when I live from there?

Vincent: Mm-Hmm.

Armelle: So to me it's really about being more truthful to myself and to life.

Vincent: At some point you mentioned you were asking yourself, why am I, and back then, I don't think you had an answer, but today, if you ask yourself, why are you, if I ask you, why are you?

Armelle: Hmm. [00:49:00] You're saying why, right? Why, why was I born?

yeah.

I would say definitely for that and to share this also,

you know, when Covid happened, um, at some point I had a, a thought, like it was like poof, like a light bulb. Uh, and I just felt like I was born for this moment.

Vincent: Hmm,

Armelle: And I don't know why, but I have a lot of resiliency. 

Vincent: Hmm, 

Armelle: That's how I am built, apparently. And I feel I have something to give to this world. And that's, that's that. not that life is easy all the time, but we can make it into something beautiful.

Vincent: Would you say it's your gift?

Armelle: Um, I think so. I think that, uh, yeah. Yeah.

Vincent: Yeah. Suddenly, i, I feel you're almost a little shy [00:50:00] to share.

Armelle: To say that, oh, no, it's because I was I was gonna say also that I feel so alive. I think that aliveness that was there when I was little, that I found again after going through my spiritual path and, and waking up. Actually, I found again this aliveness of a little girl, and I feel like this is my gift.

Uh, I see. When people come to me, they often come because they wanna feel alive and, yeah. So yes, sharing this and this aliveness, 

Vincent: yeah. 

Armelle: that's us

Vincent: Yeah. What's like for you to feel alive? 

Armelle: It's very sparkly. Uh, yeah, it's full of joy. It's sparkly. It's, uh, sometimes jumping up and down or dancing or, or resting. It depends, uh. [00:51:00] Mostly, often a lot of energy, but not all the time. It's also just sitting on my couch and meditate and be quiet and wanting to do nothing and just be within and just love just this contact with myself and this just unlimited, um, presence that's there. Uh, it can look like that also. 

Vincent: Yeah. You said contact with yourself? 

Armelle: You know, this intimacy, that's what, that's the word I meant. That's intimacy with myself. Where there is no border, there is no veil,

Vincent: Hmm

Armelle: and it's really intimacy with everything actually in these moments the whole universe. 

Vincent: Yeah, it's beautiful. 

Armelle: Hmm. 

Vincent: It sounds like bliss. 

Armelle: It is actually, 

Vincent: It is. Yeah.

Armelle: [00:52:00] yeah.

Vincent: And a few minutes ago, you, you mentioned in various way, you had mystical experiences. Would you share

Armelle: sure. For example, it's like feeling one with absolutely everything. Um, it's having the veil of separation falling away and just being everything. Uh, there were times where I just couldn't relate to people. It's like I had a direct experience of everything, and so I was everything. And so I just didn't know how to be in relationship because to be in relationship we have to be two.

But as my experience was so direct, I felt that I am everything. So I just didn't know how, how does that work? How do we do that? Um, or I remember one day I was giving a retreat with, uh, another teacher, and I went to the bathroom during the break, and there I was and I was, uh, [00:53:00] suddenly poof, like my, my whole mind just kind of shifted and I had no idea what was happening, where I was, who I was.

Uh, it, and it's always like these kind of veils that we have of separation or of definition, everything that we define is, is like a separation in order to be able to take something out of something else. And so there I was and what. What's going on. And I, I had the sense that I, I just got on that place and I didn't know anything about it.

I, and then a few minutes later I remembered and so I could just go to the bathroom and then came back and kept on the retreat. So I, this kind of experiences actually, it's, uh, yeah, and sometimes it's just feeling so expansive like that there is no edge to who I am and [00:54:00] for sure that I am not the body.

Um, and, and then this expansion is, you know, it's like, yeah, it's, I dunno how else to explain that.

Vincent: Hmm,

Armelle: It's just super expansive. There's no beginning, no end, no no center, nothing just is.

Vincent: how did those, experiences impacted you? 

Armelle: Well, the, that's what they changed. They, they changed my whole experience. That's, that's by living all this. And really, to me, these awakening experiences, that's what shifted my perspective of life and my perspective in life. Like, I, I feel really, there is a before and after, before I was living life, after life is living me. And everything that happens is really, for me, it's always working for me. There's always something in it. And I don't see, [00:55:00] I can feel the suffering, but I don't see it the same way. Um, so everything that arises is not a problem. I, that's it I don't have any problem. 

Everything that arises is not a problem. It's what I have to meet in the moment. And then the next, and then the next. And it's not comfortable, as I say, it doesn't mean it is always,

Vincent: of course. 

Yeah. 

Armelle: but there is no added suffering. There is no, it shouldn't be there anymore. I should feel differently or something. 

Vincent: It sounds like a form of unconditional acceptance.

Armelle: Mm-Hmm. Yeah. Of that. Yeah. Yeah, 

Vincent: Even unconditional love for everything that is happening to you.

Armelle: Yeah. Yeah. But I, I, I was hesitating because I feel unconditional love is so misinterpreted. [00:56:00] Um, and it's not that I am loving, I, I as Armelle is loving everything that happened. It's more. That opening, that consciousness, that which we are is the love in which everything happened. 

Vincent: Mm-Hmm I feel I'm healing a little bit, just hearing your story too.

Armelle: Uh, cool. 

Vincent: Yeah. 

Armelle: I'm already happy it serves you. 

Vincent: for sure. Yeah. If you wanna check one last time with your, with your heart, your big, beautiful heart. Are you called to share anything else?

Armelle: I so want to thank you Vincent. And really I just feel like my heart is bursting. I, um. I just wanna say, I just wanna say, I love you. I love you. I just think that love is the strongest, the biggest strength [00:57:00] we can have, the strongest power we can have. Um, and yeah, if we can wake up to this spark, really this spark of life that is always there, um, it changes everything.

So it's actually funny, I'm thinking as I tell you that my son would've had 24 years old yesterday. And when he died for his funeral, I wrote him a poem. And in the poem I say, there is a flame inside of you that is always, that is also inside of me that will always burn and that's really it. It's, it's not in people, it's life itself. And so that spark of life to me is really that, like, that which never dies.

Vincent: Thank you. What a beautiful way to end!

Armelle: Uh, thank you so much too. it's really such an amazing idea to have [00:58:00] started this. I'm so happy that you invited me. Thank you. 

Vincent: You're very welcome, Armelle 

Sometimes I ask: is there anything you wish I had asked that I haven't asked?

Armelle: Ah, I have no idea.

Vincent: Take your time.

Armelle: Hmm. I, I would say, not that I would've loved you to ask it, but something is coming. Uh, is, what would you like life to be about from now on?

one. 

Vincent: Well, Armelle. What would you like life to be about from now on for you?

Armelle: It's so fun. Well, joy, laughter, simplicity,

Vincent: Mm-Hmm.

Armelle: love. [00:59:00] Yeah, true loving relationships and And an intimate partner.

Vincent: Yeah. 

Yeah.

I really feel it's part of something so important for me. I so love living by myself and in the same time, I can't imagine my life without sharing it with someone that I deeply love and deeply loves me. I feel it's makes life so much worth living it. Thank you for listening to this episode of Stories of Healing hosted and produced by me, Vincent Paul. Special thanks to my guest, Armelle six for trusting us with her story. Thank you to friend of a podcast who provide feedback on the episode, Mariam Talakhadze and Matei Mancas. Music by Matt Styslinger. We look forward to your company on our next episode.